Joined: Nov 2002 Gender: Male Posts: 800 Location: McHenry Illinois
Re: Weapons of the militia « Reply #15 on May 18, 2005, 9:00pm »
Thats a loaded question, (No pun intended) the weapon is the most expensive part of a reenactors kit (unless your mounted). Inexpensive arms are getting rare. The only alternatives are to buy a used repop. I think the best deal that I have run into, was from the Discriminating General. I believe the company is from Canada, and they ship muskets without the touch holes drilled in them to avoid conflicts with the ATF. They had some weapons that went for around $500.00.
Re: Weapons of the militia « Reply #16 on Jul 8, 2005, 12:33pm »
Quote:
Another question about weapons (actually several). Since there were several weapons made in Europe; eg. swords from Germany; were there still weapons that were still being used, either my militia or regulars, from previous wars in use? Several of the weapons were copies of British or French models that eventually American manufacturers made. Since the officer class were purchasing their own, how strict did they have to follow regulations with what they purchased and how old of stock could they get? If the weapons still were functional it makes sense that they would still use it.
An unarmed Lt. Dan
Dan, sorry for the delayed response...
Speaking solely for the militia, while the various militia regulations (both federal and state) provided for officers to be armed with swords, it wa still up to the individual militia officer to provide the weapon. The record seems to indicate that this task was easier "said than done."
While there were a large number of weapons and munitions left over from the "War of 1812" the actual disposition of these stocks is open to debate. What is clear is that many of the stocks went to the various states to arm their respective militias-- and "public swords" were part of these distributions.
Some of these swords were of European manufacture; and some were American-made. I submit that a few such swords very probably found their way into the hands of militia officers during the Black Hawk War. Other such swords would need to have been privately acquired... however, such an occurance would necessarily coincide with someone whose experiences as an officer justified the acquisition. I submit that for many BHW "thirty day" militia officers, the timeframes didn't necessarily justify the need/expense of the acquisition. The militia laws certainly "allowed" for such arms. Whether or not this "allowance" rose to the level of a "regulation" is not clear. I will note that I have yet to read of a militia officer cashiered or otherwise disciplined for not having a sword!
[Sidebar: Those of us that dabble in the Civil War histories need to guard against the propensity to extrapolate America's arms experiences of 1861-5 to 1832-- the two historical and militiary situations were radically different!]
Happily, we can document this occurance on a tiny scale: definately two and probably three swords were present and in the hands of officers at the Battle of the Pecatonica (Bloody Lake) in June, 1832.
Re: Weapons of the militia « Reply #18 on Jul 8, 2005, 3:43pm »
DJ, the interesting thing about the BHW militia was:
The "Militia Act of 1792" clearly indicated that individual militiamen were to provide their own weapons. By the time of the Black Hawk War, this was not usually the case! Indeed the State of Illinois was often issuing "U. S. Muskets" to militia companies. Things were a little less organized in the Michigan Territory, where they relied on a shipment of nearly 200 muskets from Federal sources to supply the needs of unarmed men in several companies.
More and more, we're seeing that less and less volunteers actually "brought" their own weapons with them during their thirty-day enlistment, relying instead on supplies of arms from state or federal sources.
And now for my weekend "brain-teaser"-- Can you think of a reason WHY having more guns of a uniform caliber might be an advantage?
Joined: Nov 2002 Gender: Male Posts: 800 Location: McHenry Illinois
Re: Weapons of the militia « Reply #19 on Jul 10, 2005, 8:51am »
Because as the person who is in line in front of you gets shot and killed, you can use his ammunition too. Not to mention, if you could match your enemies caliber, you could use his ammo too, this is also mentioned in the ancient writings in the "Art of War" in which it states..."taking one pound of provisions from your enemy, is equal to using twenty pounds of your own provisions" (thats the short version of what is said about logistics)
« Last Edit: Jul 10, 2005, 8:56am by Gene Stevens »
Re: Weapons of the militia « Reply #21 on Jul 12, 2005, 8:07am »
Regardless... Gene is on the right track. Logistics is an important issue, and ammunition RESUPPLY is an essential element to any sustained military campaign.
But what KIND of ammunition? The more uniform the weaponry, the more probable that ammunition resupply can be accomplished with cartridges of uniform caliber. If the bulk of one's force is armed with .69 cal U. S. Muskets, then one need to consider one major ammunition caliber in terms of supply.
As we know, Atkinson's force was armed with weapons of varying calber. As a result, government cartridges had to be supplimented with bulk gunpowder and bulk lead.
Re: Weapons of the militia « Reply #22 on Mar 6, 2007, 1:30pm »
Does anyone know what type of cannons were being used by Gen Atkinson's men? We'll be doing some ground penetration radar testing on a field in Jefferson County, WI where the troops may have spent a few days. Local legend says they left with one less cannon than they had when they arrived. I was wondering just what type of cannon it could have been, and what it may have been made of.
Joined: Nov 2002 Gender: Male Posts: 800 Location: McHenry Illinois
Re: Weapons of the militia « Reply #23 on Mar 9, 2007, 10:39am »
Greetings, Welcome to the Black Hawk War Society Board, the cannons were most likely six pounders.
Atkinson Brigr Genl U.S. Army" General Henry Dodge received the July 25th letter of Captain Loomis by the "Politeness of Mr. Parish" in which Loomis reports, "I send a large Flat, one 6 pdr. [pounder cannon] & 25 men to the mouth of the Ouisconsin to be anchored in the middle of the river.
Your most likely looking for an iron barrel and other iron parts that would have been part of the carraige and wheels. Most carraiges have a lot of metal attached to them, so if theres a cannon out there, for sure you should find at least bits and pieces of it, if not the whole thing.
BUT, be cautious, the Black Hawk War period is filled with legend and theory. It's tough to sort out whats real and whats not. I wish you luck with your project, please feel free to tell us more about what you find.
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